Can I use modified thin set mortar over Kerdi membrane?
In general, modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. Modified thin-set mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard film in order to gain strength.
Can I use thinset under a Kerdi tile?
Now, with that said...Use of a modified thinset under the Kerdi when installed over Durock or Hardi will most likely be alright. It will take a bit longer to set up and reach full bonding strength. For the DIYers - We give the best possible advice that meets tile industry standards and manufacturers recommended installation procedures.
Do I need to wet the substrate before installing Kerdi?
When installing KERDI with unmodified thin-set mortar over particularly dry and porous substrates, it is recommended to wet the substrate first, in order to help prevent premature drying or skinning of the thin-set mortar.
What are modified thin-set mortars?
Schluter Systems’ modified thin-set mortars have been specifically formulated to set and gain strength in a timeframe that fits typical installation practice, even when sandwiched between Schluter™ membranes or boards and porcelain tile.
Can you use modified thinset with Schluter?
0:573:26Schluter®-Systems: Position on Thin-set Mortar - YouTubeYouTubeStart of suggested clipEnd of suggested clipAnd practical testing. Now the installer can select from either unmodified or modified thinsetMoreAnd practical testing. Now the installer can select from either unmodified or modified thinset mortar to install tiles within our systems according to his or her preference.
What Thinset do you use with KERDI?
Schluter SET™, ALL-SET™, FAST-SET™ or an unmodified thin-set mortar must be used to construct all KERDI seams to ensure watertightperformance of the system.
Should I use modified or unmodified thinset for shower walls?
WarmlyYours Radiant Heating recommends modified thinset mortar for nearly all tile and stone installations. However, if you're using a Prodeso Installation Membrane, you'll want to go “old school” and stick with unmodified thinset.
Whats the difference between modified and unmodified thinset?
Unlike unmodified mortar, which consists only of a blend of Portland cement, sand, and water retention agents, modified thinset includes additional retention products, such as latex polymers, which can increase its performance and strength.
What happens if you use modified thinset on DITRA?
Although it breaks Schluter's installation instructions, nothing bad happens when you use modified mortar to install Kerdi. You MAY need to allow for additional drying time. Can you use unmodified thinset under Ditra? Yes and no.
What does modified thinset mean?
A modified thin-set mortar contains polymers formulated into the dry mix that increase its performance and strength. An un-modified mortar is simply a thin-set mortar that does not contain polymer in the dry mix.
What is the best thinset for shower walls?
0:252:18Choosing the Right Mortar for Tile Setting - YouTubeYouTubeStart of suggested clipEnd of suggested clipChoose custom flex bond crack prevention mortar it offers high bond strengths for difficult to bondMoreChoose custom flex bond crack prevention mortar it offers high bond strengths for difficult to bond to tiles like porcelain.
How do you tile over Kerdi membrane?
Kerdi Shower Wall Tile Installation (DIY Guide)Complete all Tiling Prerequisite steps. ... Plan Out Your Tile Layout. ... Apply Thinset Mortar to the Shower Walls. ... Install Tiles on the Shower Walls. ... Allow Thinset Mortar to dry and Removal Tile Spacers. ... Apply Grout to Tiles. ... Apply Silicone to the Expansion Joints.
How long does modified thinset take to cure?
With standard modified thin-set mortar the Tile Council of North America says it can take from 14 to more than 60 days to cure properly. In this case, an unmodified thin-set mortar would be best suited, as the mortar is able to properly hydrate and cure faster (typically within 24 hours).
Can you use modified thinset over redguard?
Premixed thinset mortar does not adhere well to RedGard waterproofing membrane. In order to make sure your tile bonds well to a surface that has been waterproofed with RedGard, use a powdered mortar. You will need to mix this mortar with water yourself, but it will ensure a strong bond between the tile and the wall.
What mortar do you use for Schluter?
Schluter-Systems requires the use of Schluter SET™ , ALL-SET™ , FAST-SET™, or an unmodified thin-set mortar meeting the requirements of ANSI A118. 1 to install ceramic. (including porcelain) and stone tile over DITRA and DITRA-XL.
Can I use unmodified thinset on drywall?
Thinset adheres to Sheetrock as well as any other surface, but you need to consider the purpose of the area when installing tile. Ceramic, porcelain and rock tiles add beauty and functionality to many areas of the home and give homeowners many design options. Thinset comes in two colors, white and gray.
Which Mapei Thinset is unmodified?
Keraset: This is Mapei's mid-range unmodified.
What type of thinset do you use for shower walls?
0:294:29Thinset for Bathroom Ceramic Tile Floors & Walls (Get the Scoop)YouTubeStart of suggested clipEnd of suggested clipWe like our decks x-77. For hanging large format tiles on a vertical surface. You can also use ourMoreWe like our decks x-77. For hanging large format tiles on a vertical surface. You can also use our decks x-77.
How do you know if mortar is unmodified?
Look for this standard on the packaging (e.g., product meets ANSI A118. 1 when mixed with water). Unmodified thin-set mortar may also be referred to as dry-set mortar by the manufacturer. Modified thin-set mortars are similar to unmodified thin-set mortars, but include additional polymers such as latex.
Do you use modified or unmodified thinset with DITRA?
To set DITRA over concrete or gypsum, Schluter-Systems recommends an unmodified thin-set mortar meeting the requirements of ANSI A118.
What is Schluter thin set mortar?
Schluter Systems’ modified thin-set mortars have been specifically formulated to set and gain strength in a timeframe that fits typical installation practice, even when sandwiched between Schluter™ membranes or boards and porcelain tile. The proportions of cement, waterretention agents, polymers, and other components in the mixtures were balanced to ensure that extended dry times are not required.
What type of mortar is used for tile?
Schluter-Systems requires the use of Schluter SET™ , ALL-SET™ , FAST-SET™, or an unmodified thin-set mortar meeting the requirements of ANSI A118.1 to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. In fact, after the mortar has reached final set (usually within 24 hours), unmodified thin-set mortars achieve higher strengths when cured in continually moist conditions. With applications of tile on ceilings, it may be necessary to provide temporary support for the tile until the thin-set mortar cures.
Can you extend the cure time of a tile before grouting?
Therefore, extended cure times could be required before grouting if using modified thin-set mortars between KERDI and ceramic tile, including porcelain tile. If extended cure times were not observed, the results could be unpredictable.
Can you use green marble in wet areas?
Exceptions: Certain moisture-sensitive sto nes, e.g., green marble, or resin-backed tiles may not be appropriate for use in wet areas or may require special setting materials. Please consult the stone supplier and Schluter®-Systems for more information.
Can you use modified thin set mortar on ceramic tile?
In general, modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile , including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. Modified thin-set mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard film in order to gain strength.
What is modified thinset mortar?
Modified thinset mortars are similar but include additional polymers — such as latex — which are introduced in either liquid or powder form. For the liquid form, an unmodified or dry-set mortar powder is mixed with a liquid polymer additive instead of with water.
Can you use modified thinset mortar with Kerdi?
Modified thinset mortars aren't recommended for use with Kerdi because they must dry out to gain strength, whereas the membrane inhibits drying, which can lead to unpredictable results. For example, if a shower is used before the mortar has cured properly, leaks and polymer leaching can occur.
Can you use modified mortar on Kerdi shower?
In principle, modified mortars also could be used over water-absorbing substrates such as drywall, cement backerboard, or dry-pack mortar — but seams and connections to the Kerdi drain would still need to be constructed using unmodified thin set mortar. Frankly, working with more than one type of mortar seems unnecessarily complicated.
eurob master tile and stone installer
You are going to need to test this claim of ball bearing thinset and report back.
johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD
No Pepocchopper for me. Sometimes I get Heart Burn and I reach for the pickle jar. Pour out a two ounce shot - shot it and then eat a pickle. Seems to work. White vinegar does the same but is nastier...
eurob master tile and stone installer
The mortar used in between the Kerdi and drywall will be - all samples -- UF RS .
eurob master tile and stone installer
To avoid cross contamination of polymers -- different mortars and manufacturers -- I decided to install the glass samples after a period of 12hours . Plenty of time for the UF RS to cure without mixing with the other , on the perimeter .
eurob master tile and stone installer
Alright , I did the corner test -- lifting it -- ..... don't worry we all know where the S stands with it .
ShowerDude Showers
This is great.....The Man goes and spends his own $$$$ to test products on his own time. A true Tile geek, full of passion for his craft.
eurob master tile and stone installer
Roberto, what is the dollop of thinset on top of the glass for? Is it a control to compare curing of thinset exposed to air vs that under the glass?
Can you put mastic over tile?
ABSOLUTELY!! NO MASTIC IN A WET AREA, and especially over a waterproof membrane like Kerdi!! That'll hold the moisture in where it can attack the mastic and reimulsify it. It won't be long before the only thing holding up the tile is the grout!!
Can you use modified thinset over kerdi?
I don't mind using a modified thinset over the Kerdi. My preference is for the non-sag thinsets, but it MUST be a portland cement based powdered thinset. It CAN NOT be mastic, and shouldn't be in a wet area, anyway, REGARDLESS of the Kerdi!! Pull it down, NOW, while you have a chance to save the tile and the Kerdi. I'd be willing to bet a weeks pay the mastic from yesterday's still soft.
Can you use thinset on Kerdi?
If you want to follow Schluter's guidelines, then you'll usually use an unmodified thinset to install and tile over Kerdi.
Why does modified vs unmodified mortar matter?
The debate matters because of the way the different products cure. Modified mortars need air to dry and unmodified’s don’t. That is to say, the longer an unmodified mortar holds onto its moisture the better.
To Each their own
What’s happened is that the different manufacturers are setting their own rules and innovating their own products. For example:
Unmodified thinsets
Now, Schluter will still guarantee the use of unmodified thinset mortars meeting ANSI 118.1 with their products. However, they only offer their lifetime system warranty when using their brand of Schluter mortars. [ 3]
Best thinset to use with Schluter Kerdi and Ditra
The table below references some of the thinset mortars that comply with Schluter’s installation instructions. I’ve highlighted my preferred choices in bold.